Change, Easy Right? Change Management Expert Knows All to Well How Hard It Is

Jessica is not only an entrepreneur with a heart of gold that has sought out to create fair work environments on both side, but is a brilliant women that works hard to understand people and the law. She has spent her career working with people assisting with so many things, one hot topic today is change management. As we navigate so many things changing in our world daily, having a person like Jessica and Ollenburg LLC is the only comfort many employers have, and I got the opportunity to talk with her, you don’t want to miss this great conversation!    

 

Leighann Lovely  00:20

HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started.

 

Jessica Ollenburg is a multi-preneur, executive consultant and educator at the intersection of employment law, change management, and employee motivation, profiled as the pioneer of HR management, and research in Fortune Magazine, just founded the management consulting division of HRS Human Resource Services and also founded HRIS staffing division, which was labeled the anti temp service today at Oldenburg executive consulting. She continues working with business owners and C suite executives in legal risk management, organizational change, and magnetic culture, a guru of evidence, policies, practices and innovation. Jessica is also a multi award winning CEO, inventor, author, community leader, visionary, and topic expert. Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today. I am really excited to have you.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  02:18

Thank you for the invitation. Leighann, it's wonderful to be here and looking forward to the conversation.

 

Leighann Lovely  02:23

Yeah. So you are the managing partner and Principal Consultant of Oldenburg LLC. Is that correct? That's correct. And you and I, it's it's crazy how we met, I actually met with your husband in hopes of getting an introduction with you. And and then he introduced us and we've we've had the opportunity to talk numerous times. And I'm really excited to to again, have this conversation with you today and, and talk, basically pick your brain about a wide variety of different things, but mainly in the world today with change management and everything that's going on. I just I can't wait to jump in. So tell me just a little bit overview of you know, kind of what your firm does.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  03:16

Sure, sure. Again, it's wonderful to be here and I've enjoyed our conversations to this point and, and looking forward to continuing that. Oldenburg LLC is an primarily an executive consulting firm, we're working with business owners and C suite executives and employment law change management and leadership playbooks. It is very much focused on change management, especially at this time, and has been driven in somewhat of a predictive and early responder category for for many years. As an example of that, during the pandemic, especially in the beginning of the pandemic, when even the health departments we're not yet armed with guidance, and we're not agreeing with steps we found our business owner and C suite clients not knowing how to respond to a COVID outbreak, because there was no standardized guidance, and we became literally a 24/7 Batphone for our clients handling not only what needed to happen as far as safeguarding the immediate environment and proper notifications without risking medical privacy. How do we create assurances how do we tucked down the fear, how do we make people comfortable, safe, healthy? And what are the policies that we put in place? So it really was a shut up and hang on practice for a couple of years as we simply adapted and helped.

 

Leighann Lovely  05:18

Right? Wow. And, you know, obviously, the people who are not in it every day, you know, myself, I'm on the end of, okay. I may have COVID, I don't go to work, I have no idea what's going on, as you know, as a business owner of, oh, we have a possible outbreak at our company. You know, I'm not of the mindset of how do we handle this? How do we keep people's privacy, you know, secure if they don't want employees at the company to know that they're going and getting tested? And how, so I don't understand or fully understand, you know, that type of thing. So you, basically are the one who's reading through, I guess, the most updated law on that, and

 

Jessica Ollenburg  06:08

correct,

 

Leighann Lovely  06:10

And then having to regurgitate that to, you know, the business owners and explain to them how they have to then implement that at their business.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  06:24

Yes, exactly. And one of the unique attributes and a big reason that our clients knew to come to us and put us in that first responder category was our decades as friends of the court working in expert witness affirmative defense, and not as litigators, but as respected experts in law, where it becomes reasonable care, when we sign off on a practice for our employers. And therefore, now they can show that they took the reasonable care in being compliant. And that due diligence factor has been signed off on by a third party expert who's respected by the courts. So while you have these various local and Star state and federal departments all disagreeing on what might be safety protocol, somebody has to step in and say this is due diligence, this is where we're going to start. And you've done right by doing everything in your power to make sound decisions for the safety of everyone.

 

Leighann Lovely  07:45

Right. And by having that third party, at least you're I don't want to say pushing off the responsibility, but as an employer, you're wearing every hat that you possibly can to try to run your business.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  07:59

Absolutely, trying. And it has to be true that some of this liability needs to be subrogated. So that you can focus on your business. Right?

 

Leighann Lovely  08:11

And that's, I can't we, you know, small business. Well, any size business owner is got way too many other things going on. And that's why today, we are talking about, you know, change management, right? We're talking about, especially now in today's world, and I know that you and I had mentioned or when we had talked offline, we had talked about this world today. And again, we hear this all the time, well, things are so different than they were last year. And this has been something that, you know, throughout my career, they always are changing. However, with the onset of the pandemic with COVID happening. I know that people now are coming to you saying, Well, Jessica, how do we handle this? What do we need to update our employee handbook with to now handle all of the different things that are going on in our workforce? How do we make sure that we're covering everything and one of the big things is the remote workers, right? Absolutely. So on top of making sure that you're covering your butt for privacy with you know, everything that was going on during obviously in the middle in the midst of COVID Now we have a completely different view and, and vision of what our workforce looks like. So now that we've come out the other side, for all intensive purposes, I don't know if we're fully out the other side or or if this is just the new normal, right? The New Normal I know I hate that phrase. I do I absolutely hate it but it's just Right, let's just say that's what it is right?

 

Jessica Ollenburg  10:02

It Right. Right. It has its place in the dialogue creates its own discussion. Yeah.

 

Leighann Lovely  10:09

So now everybody's all these companies are going okay. Well, I, I have maybe 25% of my employees working remote, maybe 50. Maybe now a company that used to have brick and mortar doesn't. And they have 100% remote workers, and their employee handbook from three years ago, has become completely null and void.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  10:34

Yes, yes, that that is true. And we can we can say no and void in a way that if we're missing the major risk factors, yet we have an instrument that speaks to it. Once we have written guidance, contract law tells us that an oral agreement is not binding, where a written agreement is already established. So the creation of a handbook. Some are still doing this cookie cutter. And it's crazy. What is the point of a cookie cutter handbook, I don't know, especially in today's times where it is so important to focus on engagement and getting the right people doing the right things with the right resources for your unique company. Putting cookie cutter policies in place can be very detrimental to that. But to your point of not updating it, as soon as something that is a major liability or risk is not addressed. We have a a handbook that has become entirely obsolete. So we are recommending annual updates. Some of the things we're looking at right now for our clients who have kept up with the updates are going to be looking more deeply at the hybrid and remote work, as well as changing laws in many states, counties and cities that need to be addressed. And what we see with the hybrid and remote work is the question becomes work Nexus we might have a an employee who is working remotely from Dallas, who is reporting to a supervisor in California, while the client is in some area of New York. Now we need to help that employer understand where's the work Nexus we sign off on that, and can create a bespoke agreement, which also needs to be referenced in the employee handbook as well. And we learn what becomes an individualized agreement versus a general handbook tool set.

 

Leighann Lovely  13:22

Interesting. Very interesting. So is there I guess here's a question that I don't know. With now, obviously, remote workers is, are all companies able to or licensed to be able to hire an employee from any state

 

Jessica Ollenburg  13:43

Occupational licensing? I don't mean to laugh, but I did get a Google alert on myself this morning. On this very topic, as I'm currently serving on the state's Study Committee, the legislative Study Committee on occupational licensing and where it comes down to occupational licensing absolutely affects hybrid and remote work because there are many cases in which we cannot cross boundaries. So if the work Nexus is now affected by whether or not the licensing is valid in that state. We have a compliance issue and a risk so we can't be allowing people to cross borders with their work unless the licensing allows it.

 

Leighann Lovely  14:41

And in there are I'm I'm going to and maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to jump to the conclusion that there might be small business owners out there that do not know this that may run small, little kind of boutique type For businesses that now that they have the opportunity to hire a remote worker that they go, Oh, I can just hire somebody who's in a different state. And this may be something that they go, Oh, wait, you mean, I can't hire somebody who's in Florida, and I'm in Wisconsin.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  15:19

And that's a really good point, Leanne. And I would add to that, not only is that true is that that information is missing. One thing that's been true of our government throughout my many moons of career is the government states, it's not our job to teach you how to comply. And right now we have a government that's fundraising. So they're certainly going to go where they expect to find the fines so that they can fiscally cover their efforts in audit. Small businesses are definitely being a lot more targeted than previously. And especially because that's where you're going to find the holes. And the difference between these laws, again, can can differ depending on what side of the street you're on. We have states that are dividing their laws up by city and county, not just statewide, not just federal, so you really need to know what laws apply. And to your point of the small business owner being unaware, it's absolutely true in some states, paid leave laws or laws that might affect what you need to disclose and enforce to an employee that differs from one law to another as far as the size, some laws are written to say anyone with perhaps 25 Or more aggregate employees company wide, is subject to our law. Other laws might say, the headcount here within this state or this county, are those that will measure whether or not this needs to be enforced. And some will start with employee one. So we also need to help our clients understand what is the point at which they now need to comply with this law? Right? Are they in compliance, and much of it is disclosure through postings, which also now has to be virtual, because there is no break room for the hybrid or remote worker who's eating in their kitchen?

 

Leighann Lovely  17:48

That's insane. And I'm want to go back to the first the first thing that you said when you started off saying explaining all of that, you mentioned that it is not the government's job, to train on the loss, or something to that.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  18:07

Correct. That's very often been the government's posture, if not, quote at several levels, and we've seen it, we see it in audit. Ignorance is not an excuse, if you're audited. If you can show due diligence and reasonable care, you might have an auditor, who gives you opportunity to fix and just a slap on the wrist, so to speak. But you might get the immediate fine, especially in a situation where our government is fundraising.

 

Leighann Lovely  18:44

And yet they write it in a way and trust me, because I have sat and read through, you know, when, when the Affordable Care Act first, you know, was being and I'm I sat and read through page after page after page, it scratching my head saying, I have no idea what any of this means, you know, I was in a different industry at that time. Kind of a little bit of a different industry during that time. I was you know, and I was like, I really want to understand this. And I tried really, really, really tried. I'm an intelligent person, I'm going to challenge a woman. And I tried, I tried to read through it and I was like, I'm just really getting stuck on some of this on some of this, like I don't understand and then they say well reference, you know, reference this chap, you know, chapter one, four 3.5 blob in your life what you know, they they do not attempt in any way to write it in a in a way that makes sense to the layman person to just the normal. I mean, you have to actually be educated in reading contractual law.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  20:00

Law or illegals true? It's true. Yes. Which,

 

Leighann Lovely  20:04

Which means that you need to go to somebody like you who's used to reading that type of, of mumble jumble. And forgive you.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  20:15

Absolutely no, no, you're you're you're spot on with this. And funny that you mentioned that because that's yet another example of of when I can tell you that we've needed to be very quickly ready to discuss what nobody else was ready to implement when it came down so fast. But pakka and or Obama Care was one of those. And very quickly, we actually developed a speaker training, it took a while I shouldn't say quickly, it was fast, but it took a lot of work, and how to help employers understand, but there wasn't a whole lot to understand because to your point, Lian, statutory law is often written ambiguously and a little bit lazy, so that the courts are burdened with interpreting. So

 

Leighann Lovely  21:18

is that a weak Is that intentional?

 

Jessica Ollenburg  21:21

Somewhat, somewhat, you know, some of it is absolutely political and giving in on some points that are in argument in order to get something in play. Okay, because if we try to get anything through these days, given the divisive bipartisanship of every little topic, it's difficult because people want to stand on party lines and just say no, or just say yes and right. Reason should not be a partisan issue, but it seemingly is. So some of it is necessary just to get it going. Because if they waited until they had agreement, we'd never see anything.

 

Leighann Lovely  22:15

Right. Right. We just be, you know, shut, the government would be shutting down, it would be deadlocked all the time. Sure. Interesting. Okay, so what are some of the other things that that companies are coming to you, you know, for on a regular basis? You know, is there anything that stands out that Yep, this is a regular, they're always coming to us with, you know, especially now with, you know, the whole change management. I know that that was a, you know, hot topic that you and I had discussed, especially around the remote workers, but is there anything else that has been, you know, a huge game changer due to, you know, the the shift in the economy?

 

Jessica Ollenburg  22:56

Apps? Absolutely. We are seeing change management requiring a lot of evidence practices, and that's where we come in case studies that have worked and have not worked, that can be great blueprints playbooks for companies embarking upon change. Why would you want to embark upon change without some study and research as to outcomes and what to look for six hats of thinking, et cetera. So we're working with clients to help them with tactical planning, how to perhaps re posture given changing demand. And also major organizational changes were getting involved as closing counsel, if a company's cells were getting involved with creating shareholder plans outside of the ESOP. But my more creative and progressive limited shareholder plan for succession planning, and how to how to blueprint that we're looking at recessionary planning and helping our businesses, adapt evidence practices to do more with less. being frugal is important and putting your investments in the right place. Investments certainly need to be your employees. But it certainly needs to be also in balancing that with a sound business practice that safeguards those jobs.

 

Leighann Lovely  24:48

Right. Absolutely. And I think that a lot of companies have finally jumped on board with investing more in their employees and doing that in a By doing that in a more fruit, using the word that you use more frugal way, but more impactful way. And it's, it's becoming more evident that that is the only way to really retain your employees, keep them happy. And that is I mean, the importance of that in today's world is becoming more and more evident on a daily basis, in order to not lose those employees to competitors, because of, you know, $1, more or 5000 more a year, or whatever it might be. So yeah, I've definitely seen, obviously, you know, on the hiring side, I've seen that shift, wildly important. So absolutely, you know, your you, your company is, is very unique, in the sense that, and this is something that I am part of the reason that you and I originally met, because I, I, anybody that knows me knows that I am a an avid networker, I love to connect people, I love to be out in the world and refer, you know, individuals to each other. And so your company offers something that very few other organizations offer, I only know of a handful of them, you do things on an as needed basis, more of an ala carte type services, which is great, because a lot of companies out there, you have to have a membership. So if something, you know, all of the sudden happens, you know, you can't just call a you know, and I'm not going to name the names of the company, but you can't just call if you don't have a membership. If all of a sudden there's an incident at an organization, a business could contact you and say, Hey, could you come in and do an investigation for us? We don't have, you know, a huge HR team. But we need somebody who's an expert to come in. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, those different services that you offer, because I think it's amazing that that you you offer that?

 

Jessica Ollenburg  27:13

Sure, sure. And and it's very true. Our our projects are anywhere from 20 minutes to lifetime. But Time Well Spent is is very critical. And one of the things that's very important in our business model is ensuring that the client has value for every dollar spent with us that there is some return on that investment above and beyond the fee. Otherwise, we don't feel that we've done our job. So we simply don't let that happen. But you see, some of our clients might need regular attention and may be on a retainer basis. And a good portion of them really do work with us on call. Some of the leading insurance brokerages over the years have deployed us with their clients for legal and fiduciary for risk management, and even taking on the costs of doing that because it keeps the claims down. So we're in and out or around our clients for a very long time. But it's not uncommon for us to solve a six figure problem in a 30 minute phone call. So that's certainly create some value.

 

Leighann Lovely  28:50

Right? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And you you typically work on the employer side, is that correct?

 

Jessica Ollenburg  28:59

Yes, yes. Over the years, we've we've certainly made it a point to focus on both sides of the hiring desk because without bridging that gap, your business is losing a lot of opportunity. If your team members it, team building certainly became a huge buzzword. But the early days of employee involvement and quality circles and team development, were certainly on our radar all the way back into the 80s and everyday sense. It is critical that a top running organization has alignment without an ivory tower. If your employees are not buying into what you're doing and you're running a labor intensive organization, you're missing opportunities to succeed. So we do make it a point I'm a champion of the human spirit and lifelong among students of behavioral science and human motivation, behavioral anthropology, learning what makes people tick and spent, a, again, many, many moons in behavioral assessment, even developing those and validating them, so that we could predict not only how someone would perform in a position, but also was it the right thing for them? Was it the right thing for their goals, their soul their ability to retain and problem solve and optimize their talents? Or was it the path of greater resistance? Should they be somewhere else? So being a resource on both sides of the hiring desk, is critical to getting it done. We typically represent the employer in their interests, while also letting them know, hey, if you've got quiet quitting, which is also constructive resignation, we need to look at that. We need to fix that. That's that's not okay. You're doing something not right. And we need to fix it.

 

Leighann Lovely  31:15

And that's i Quiet quitting. It's that that's an interesting term.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  31:26

It is an interesting term, we used to call it constructive resignation. And it was an it still is actually a reason people would be denied unemployment. So I'm not sure why we're holding it in high esteem like it's okay. Restricting work when you're on the job is not in the best interest of your teammates, yourself, or your job security.

 

Leighann Lovely  31:57

Very interesting. So I want to ask something about your bio. Yes. So you will you founded HR s staffing division, which was labeled the anti temp service? Yes. Tell me about that.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  32:20

So, HRS was founded. We founded that in 1983. Mind you were at a time where HR wasn't HR, yet, it was still personnel, it was still very clerical. I needed to work full time already in my career and take 27 credits to get the first HR degree from Marquette because that's how I knew it was on the horizon. So the divisions that I co founded, I founded it while co founding the company, which was a family business. We're the management consulting division, which is what I do today, an extension of that, but also our clients came to us working in employment was not on our original radar. But our clients came to us and said, We want this temp to perm situation. We don't know who's going to work well, we need to train people. We don't know what jobs they're going to be in. But we want to hire them. We want them to work out. We just simply need some time before making that commitment. And would you do this for us? Because at the time, there were no there was no temp to perm. There was no contract. It was temporary. It was permanent. It was licensed under employment agencies, which was again, not consulting but being an employment agent. And the industry was very, very different. We did not work with temporary positions. But we did create what I would consider to be an upscale version of what would become a blend between strategic staffing and a PEO. Where we could offer improved benefits growth, improved problem solving, improved training, we could offer all the employees more by being on the scene, but then they would actually be directly hired after their 90 days. So the focus was on reducing turnover. And what we were talking about was turnovers costly. Businesses were not recognizing that it was a mess. Are you saying math is our friend? Right? Math?

 

Leighann Lovely  35:05

I feel like some businesses still don't recognize that.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  35:08

Well, it's true. It's true. I don't know how I don't know how some stay in business, right? You write

 

Leighann Lovely  35:19

a go to them. And they say, Well, hey, I want to hire somebody on I don't want to have to train them. And you go, Okay, do you understand that if you hire them on and you don't train them that they're going to leave in 6090 days, I mean, you understand that training may be a little bit, you know, may have a little bit of an expense to it. But the alternative is that you lose them because you didn't properly train them. And then they feel like you don't care about them. And feeling the feeling they have, will drive their decisions. Because if they don't feel like you care, that is reality.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  36:01

It is true, it's very true. And while we overuse it, in my opinion, the idea of feelings in the workplace, because work still needs to be protected so that we can protect our feelings and our ability to feel a certain way and take care of human needs. It is absolutely true, that feelings are going to impact behavior. We teach against fear. Fear, is something that can paralyze some, some might be able to get that adrenaline push and get through something because of fear. But it's short term, you rarely see that as a long term driver. Anything that adversely impacts the relaxation of the brain also impacts our ability to accept information. A long term memory is already scientifically stated that it takes three instances of learning before information seeps into the average human beings long term memory. And the long term memory in this case is defined as 20 minutes or more. So if we're putting people under a lot of mental pressure and tension, we are restricting their ability to do their best work. And this is also where a lot of harassment comes in, because environmental harassment can again, stop somebody from feeling comfortable enough to produce their best work. And it may take creativity and problem solving and just hearing oneself think, and you can't do that when you're under an inordinate amount of stress.

 

Leighann Lovely  37:58

Very interesting. Well, we are coming to time, but I want to ask you the question of the season and then get your contact info and all that other stuff. So sure. So what would you change about your job or the practice that people have in your job? Or in your role, if you could?

 

Jessica Ollenburg  38:20

And I love this question, because change is our thing. We're very much Oldenburg LLC and me as a consultant, we are very, very positioned on change management and predicting what's coming down the pipeline for businesses, business owners, and how to best prepare and be proactive. So the state of change is constant in what we do and keeps us relevant, not interested in resting on laurels from the past. But using that experience, and combining that with the changes we're seeing and predicting to create some very cutting edge and inventive solutions, so that people can be distinctive when running their businesses and create that big data culture. But also keep an eye on that efficiency. Especially now when we're dealing with a lot of financial pressures and economic uncertainty, doing more with less. And keeping ahead of change is so important for every business. And for us to be studying that and providing some decision tools we found is been very well received.

 

Leighann Lovely  39:47

Awesome. If somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?

 

Jessica Ollenburg  39:53

Most of the information on what we do is at our website, which we love of visitation to and that is Oldenburgllc.com. My email is my first name at that domain. Jessica  at Oldenburgllc.com. Happy to hear from anybody who thinks that we may be able to provide some value because we're really, really invested in the changes that are coming down the pipeline and helping people to do better with them and feeling safer and more assured that some of the change that we see coming is not negative. And there is some silver opportunity there that we're also finding for our clients.

 

Leighann Lovely  40:45

Excellent. Jessica, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. This has been an awesome and very eye opening conversation. So I really appreciate your time.

 

Jessica Ollenburg  40:56

Thank you, Leighann. I appreciate yours and your program, and I've loved hearing what you've done so far, and look forward to hearing this.

 

Leighann Lovely  41:04

Excellent. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

 

Contact Information 

 

LinkedIN – linkedin.com/in/jessicaollenburg

 

Wedsite – http://ollenburgllc.com

 

E-mail Adress – jessica@ollenburgllc.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPYI

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

employees, remote workers, clients, people, oldenburg, absolutely, state, company, point, business owners, law, true, hr, written, handbook, create, important, business, long term memory, jessica

• Likes1
• Download36
• Share