Episode 22 - William Toti - Navy Veteran, Autor and Heroic Leader

William Toti is an amazing man that has dedicated his life to service, first the military, and now to helping others find a better way to transition out of the military into the civilian world. William made a profound statement, Stop Saying “Thank You for Your Service”, if it causes you to treat your veteran employees differently. Let’s be clear this does not mean to stop saying it, but rather take time to understand your employees instead of using a blanket statement. William is a hero, and one that continues to be one in many people’s eyes.  

 

Leighann Lovely  00:19

If you are an HR professional business owner or at the operations level trying to understand what people want. You may be struggling, our systems have been shocked practices have been questioned and culture is the leading conversation. Let's learn how culture is created, sustained, and why it should be the leading conversation when discussing hiring, training and retention. This is the foundation of any business and it's time to address it. So tune in to Let's Talk HR humanizing the conversation. We tackle topics that influencers of change need to understand and struggle to overcome every day, such as where to start, and what the new workforce wants and how to attract and keep positive momentum going. I'm your host Leighann Lovely.

 

Leighann Lovely  01:06

Captain William Toti, retired US Navy has more than 26 years of service in the US Navy and 15 years in industry cumulating in a role as CEO of a defense company. Today, he continues his journey as a sought after consultant and authority on topics of military transition into industry, the monstrous September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon, and the unforgettable stories of World War Two cruiser USS Indianapolis and her heroic crew. William, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to have this conversation.

 

William Toti  01:49

I'm excited to be here Leighann. Thank you for having me.

 

Leighann Lovely  01:52

So why don't you just start off by telling me a little bit about yourself?

 

William Toti  01:56

Wow! Well, I joined the Navy at age 17. Wanting to become an astronaut that didn't quite work out. I ended up at the Naval Academy, after less than a year of being enlisted and graduated in 1979 went into submarines actually did make kind of a false move the astronaut thing I got nominated in 1987 and failed the physical. So I had to return to submarine duty, which was fine. I had a great career in submarines ended up commanding a submarine, USS Indianapolis was commodore of submarine squadron three in Pearl Harbor, and had a great Navy career made the transition industry in 2006. And boy, was it eye opening.

 

Leighann Lovely  02:39

Wow. So you went from wanting to be in space to bring in water

 

William Toti  02:47

Underwater years of my life underwater, it was very different. Wow, it's actually much more like space than you can imagine. I used to tease my astronaut friends, the ones didn't get kicked out that, you know, we we the differential pressure on a submarine is one atmosphere every 33 feet. So if you're four feet down, that's many many atmospheres. Space, only one atmosphere, you can't get more differential pressure than that because going to a vacuum to one atmosphere. So the submarine is actually in a much harsher environment than a spacecraft.

 

Leighann Lovely  03:23

Wow, that's a fact that I did not know. Yeah, that's very, very interesting. That's, that's absolutely amazing. So I I've always had this like, idealistic, you know, image of what it would be like to be underwater. However, I also have this like utter fear of being in an enclosed space. So you've got to walk me through like, what was it like your first time going? You know, under,

 

William Toti  03:52

I do remember going to sleep for the very first time and the bunks on submarines are very small, you got maybe two feet between your face and the hull above your top bunk. Bunk. And so two feet above you is the hull. And I remember on the other side of that bit of steel, there are hundreds of feet of water and all that pressure that's above you that, you know just I remember laying there thinking about that. But I was so tired. I just went straight to sleep. People who volunteer for submarine duties tend not to have issues with this stuff. So and it's all volunteer you can't be forced, right? So it wasn't a real issue for me. I do remember that one thought put it to bed and you know decade of submarine duty and never had an issue with it

 

Leighann Lovely  04:44

right. Oh my god that I don't know that I could even get myself to walk in a submarine when it was above water i that.

 

William Toti  04:53

We did have. I did have one experience when I was captain where we had a Senate staffer. come on board for Right. And as soon as we shut the hatches, she freaked out to the point where Mike Corman had had kind of drugged her and had to calm her down to get her to because she wanted to climb out the hatch. And we couldn't let her do that. So we had to turn around, go back in is out of Pearl Harbor, go back in and drop her off. It was the only time in like I said over a decade of submarine duty where that ever happened.

 

Leighann Lovely  05:25

Right? Oh, my gosh. Right. I I, as much as I'm sure that somebody can set themselves up for like, this is what's going to happen. You don't know how you're actually going to react when? When you physically are in that situation? Yep. Interesting. So okay, so you did you were in your in for 26 years? Is that correct? That's right. Awesome. And now I'm

 

William Toti  05:47

fast.

 

Leighann Lovely  05:48

It did. 20

 

William Toti  05:51

Went fast. I never intended to stay in the Navy, that long. Classes 79. Our commitment after we graduated from Annapolis was over an 84, 1984. And our kind of our motto was out the door and 84 we thought we would all be leaving the Navy as soon as our commitment was up. But I was given another really good assignment to go to graduate school. And it for free, right? And then another good assignment, and then another one and another one. And suddenly, oh, I'm Captain. Now I can't leave. Right. That's, that's really cool. And it just turned out where suddenly I was in my mid 40s. And I said, Holy cow, out of that go that fast? If I don't transition industry now, I won't have enough time in my life left for real second career. Right, which is why I decided, okay, this has been good. But I do want to have a full second career in industry. I gotta move now. And that's what caused me to jump when I did.

 

Leighann Lovely  06:54

So tell me about that. I mean, you spent basically, you know, two decades? Plus, plus, yeah, as a military man, in conditions that the majority of I would say, not the majority, almost nobody in civilian life could possibly understand because this is not the you know, the, the path you chose is not for the faint of heart. As I think we just kind of dove into a little bit. They're not extremely deep, but it's not for the faint of heart. I mean, you're living in, in a steel tube underwater,

 

William Toti  07:33

with a nuclear reactor in that steel tube. Right, exactly. Right.

 

Leighann Lovely  07:38

You can't, you can't not be 100% aware of everything you're doing at every moment of your career. So now you're transitioning into civilian into the civilian world?

 

William Toti  07:54

Well, it was it was an enormous transition way more difficult than I thought it would be. The military gives you transition training, they're required by law, actually, to give you trans transition training, as you get out, and you assume I'll speak personally, I assumed that the transition training was valid and good. And it turns out, it was just short of horrible, it misleads you in a whole bunch of different ways. And this is why I spend so much time talking to companies and HR professionals these days. Because my point is, there are great attributes that that veteran employees going to bring the company. But there's a whole bunch of things, that the veteran employee may think they know that they really don't, that might set them up for failure, if the company isn't sensitive to it, and the strategy of throwing them into the deep end and hoping they can figure out how to swim is not going to work. And so what I try to do is help a company training teams, company, HR professionals, understand what the glue the military veteran will and will not bring to their civilian job, and help them understand how to close the gaps. And this is one of the reasons I ended up writing my book, from CO to CEO because in my 16 year journey in industry, I started out as a director ended up as CEO. I saw 1000s of military employees and I saw way too many of them fail. And the failures, I was one of the first to see, oh my I almost failed in my transition. And so the lessons were repeatable. I mean, this failures were occurring, for the same reasons over and over and over again. And so what I tried to do is write all those things down, starting with what I call the Great Lie. And the great lies is told to veterans as a leading military, which is in the transition trainers will tell them, you know, you've already been a leader in the military, and all your civilian company wants from you, is good leadership. And if you can provide that level of leadership in your future job, you'll do just fine. And that's actually very bad advice. Because what it does is it sets the veteran up with an inappropriate degree of confidence, number one, that the kind of leadership they might have exerted on active duty, translates to industry, and it often doesn't. And number two, the reason I call it the great lie, is, it's certainly not all your future employer is going to want from you good leadership. You know, and it's not even true in the military. If it was true in the military, I could take a b 52, Wing Commander and put them in command a submarine. And as long as he's a good leader, it would have worked. But we know that's not the case. Right? And, and in industry, you actually need to know something about what you're doing to succeed, and good leadership is not gonna help you,

 

Leighann Lovely  11:09

right? Well, I guess here's the question, who is training the veterans who are transitioning into civilian into the civilian world,

 

William Toti  11:19

sadly, people who don't know what they're talking about, they're going to people don't get me wrong, are the contracts are awarded to the lowest bidder. And just like anytime that happens, you bid teachers that you can, that will allow you to pay them a low wage, to win the contract. And those teachers are not going to have the kind of experience necessary to actually know what they're talking about.

 

Leighann Lovely  11:47

I mean, you would think that the people who are training those people should be people like you.

 

William Toti  11:53

But they couldn't afford people like me to contract. And so it's systemic, these failures. And that's the point I make. All of these failures are systemic, the military is required by law to give the training, but the law doesn't require it to be good training, right. So they check the block, and then they, and then the veteran, ends up joining the company. And they might exhibit bad leadership behaviors, in which case, HR is gonna say, what do we do about this now? And what I also find is, non veteran managers are afraid to have those difficult conversations with their veteran employees, because they think, Who am I to tell this guy who commanded a company and in the army, that he's not exhibiting good leadership behaviors? Right, right. He's, he's not going to take that well. So rather than have that conversation with him, they let them fail. Right? So it's easier,

 

Leighann Lovely  12:54

Right? I mean, if there's no denying that, that there are many veterans who have been left out in the cold, limited support, I have seen it in my career, somebody who is in staffing, we have veterans who come to us, I'm struggling to find a job, I'm struggling to find a position in the civilian world that translates to what I was doing in the military. I have a ton of experience, but I don't know what that role looks like in the civilian world.

 

William Toti  13:24

Because in many, MOS is in many military, you know, training qualification professional qualifications do not translate well, right to civilian industry. In 2011, I was assigned to a White House working group on certifying military, people for civilian industry. And it was President Obama's initiative, and is very proud to be part of this working group. But it was easy for some fields like it, and medicine for corpsman medics to get an EMT and paramedic certification, some of them translated very, very well. But then there were other disciplines in the military, there was absolutely no civilian analog for what are you going to do with infantryman? Right? What's professional certification is that person going to make so they're absolutely coping skills, you know, as we say, in the military, but people who've gone through our deployments, understand how to embrace the suck. So nothing the company is going to throw at them is going to, you know, faze them, right, you're gonna be able to put up with the hardship, there'll be fine. So there's great coping skills which are useful, but those skills by themselves aren't enough.

 

Leighann Lovely  14:49

Right? Right. No, and to your point somebody who's an infantry it's it's extremely sad that they were very well respected in the military and then you find them years later working for minimum wage at a factory and you're like, is this what we're, we're telling our veterans that is is available to them when they transition into civilian life?

 

William Toti  15:12

Yeah. And one of the things I started saying to companies to employers is stop saying thank you for your service. And that surprises a lot of people coming from a veteran, because frankly, I like to hear people say that. So why am I saying that? It's an empty, vacuous remark, with nothing behind it, it makes the person saying it feel good. And it makes the person hearing it maybe feel good, too. But it doesn't do a thing. And I'm saying this only to employers. I'm not saying this to the general public, the general public, please do say thank you for service. But employers, it doesn't do a thing to help that military person become a better employee. In fact, if anything, it draws a broader line between the veteran employees and the non veteran employees. So rather than, say, this empty statement, do something meaningful, meaningful, it's going to help them transition into a better employee.

 

Leighann Lovely  16:13

That's really well said, because you're right in here, this made me think of a story. And this was not one of my employees. This is actually I was having a conversation. Obviously, I have a lot of conversations about HR. Sure. But somebody said to me, they were telling me a story about an employee that was working a veteran employee that was working at a company and they didn't know how to coach her. She was she was doing okay, on the job. But the manager came up to her and said, you know, some of the employees, she was managing a couple of people, some of the employees are struggling to work with you. We'd like you to smile more. And she, she was like, Okay, well, you know, I'm just doing my job, you know, you know, I'm just trying to that was their response to how we're going to coach her. Why don't you smile more?

 

William Toti  17:10

RIght

 

Leighann Lovely  17:10

and again, eventually, they ended up letting her go, because that was the feedback they gave, we want you to smile, more people will respond to you better.

 

William Toti  17:23

This is exactly the problem. The company rather than treating, treating the veteran, just like any other employee, treats them differently, right? Would you say that to a non veteran employee, and then once so there's a differentiation in the kind of feedback the manager and HR gives to the veteran employee. And then there's a much higher probability that rather than giving them meaningful coaching, and feedback, like they would do with any other employee, and the performance reviews, they basically say, just gonna let them fail. And people wonder why the veteran suicide rate is so high and, and why there's so much stress and transition anxiety for veterans. These are exactly the reasons these things happen.

 

Leighann Lovely  18:16

Right? I don't know, if there's, if there is a assumed, like your, your, your military person, you, you should know how to do this. Or if it's a fear in the HR, what you were saying of? Well, I don't want to insult them, because they are because they are a veteran, but we're talking about two completely different two different disciplines. Military, which is an extremely structured, extremely, you understand you were not only trained in your MOS you were, you were trained in the disciplines of the military through basic training. And then you continue to get training and continue to get very clear, concise expectations of your job on a regular basis. If you just wanna, I mean, it's so when I'm assuming when this veteran and again, I say I'm assuming, because I don't know, some of my listeners know that I you know, served but I did not serve very long and that was over 20 plus years ago. So, I never experienced any of this I was, you know, so I am

 

William Toti  19:33

I mentioned that I almost failed in my first job. Happily, my, my boss, my boss's boss, actually, who was my mentor. Had that really difficult conversation with me. In fact, remember the words the exact words he used was, Bill, you're screwing this up. That was the best thing he could have ever said to me. And in the counseling that followed. One of the things he said was So I put this in my book, right? You need to learn how to live with ambiguity. And that was a concept that never occurred to me. I was a, I was a captain of a submarine. It was it was either, you know, it was black, or it was white, there were no Shades of Grey, we're gonna it's right or it's wrong. There's the chain of command, you follow the chain of command, I was Commodore, the same thing. Learn to live with ambiguity was a concept that was foreign to me. But that one simple expression, taught me so much. And reset my kind of frame of reference, in ways allowed me to turn it around and succeed where I'd been failing.

 

Leighann Lovely  20:44

I have, right that. And that's, that's an extremely powerful point. There is no ambiguity in the military.

 

William Toti  20:55

Well, there is, but we we try to pretend there is. I try to turn ambiguity into certainty. Yes. So we're gonna make a decision, what is you know, and it's kind of like that. The notion of in fact, I talk about, you know, situational leadership and the book, you know, in some, and I do, imply, in the book, I don't name which services are better than others, but some transitioning, some people transitioning from what some services, some military services, understand that, you know, situational leadership concept better than other military services, and let people let your listeners decide which services are more regimented, and which are more kind of flexible and adaptable. But there's truth to that. And when I was in the process of hiring people, I consider that, you know, and I would say to people who I knew, were coming from a background, whether it'd be excessively regimented, I would have that conversation with them. And I would say, you understand now that this is a different environment. And what you what worked for you a great book, I refer to every everybody to What Got You Here Won't Get You There is the title of the book. And I refer that book to everybody from the military that are higher. And I would say, your success will depend on your degree of adaptability, right? This is before I wrote my own book in order for them to my point, but anyway, but that is just absolutely. HR people, hiring managers, and managers need to understand that, that is, the biggest thing they can help their veterans do is understand the concept of situational leadership. You know, the need to kind of get immersed in the success profile of a company, which is going to be very different. And the need to help the veteran understand the mission, because veterans are always going to be very mission oriented. And when you're on active duty, it's easy to understand the mission defending the country, when you join a company, cynical veterans start thinking, Well, my mission now is to put money in my boss's pocket. That's not the mission, right? That is not the mission. But it may not be obvious to the veteran, but that's not the mission. And so company's goal can go a long way, by helping the veteran understand what the real mission is.

 

Leighann Lovely  23:35

And how many companies do you think actively try to understand and really help these veterans I mean, with the companies that you've spoken with it because again, I work with, and I will and I see all the time, you know, veteran friendly, or, you know, veterans wanted, but then often, and there's one company, and obviously, I'm not going to name names, but there's one company that oh, we're veteran friendly, we're veteran friendly, but they they don't make any attempt to do anything differently with those individuals.

 

William Toti  24:19

Companies that consider themselves veteran friendly can recite to you how many veterans they hire in a given year. So ask them, Okay, how many veterans that you hired are still with you after five years? And they fail open? They have no idea. And so they unless you can answer that question, and unless the number and percentage, it compares to the percentage of non vets that have are still with you after five years, you're not veteran friendly, and answer the question about which companies do a good job. The default wisdom would say, well, the defense companies because they are the closest to the veteran community. You're the Active Duty community. And the truth is, defense companies are more likely to pigeonhole veterans into business development like positions. And, like propagates like. So people think that that's where the veterans belong. They belong to those business development. I wasn't. I went into p&l, which was a high risk, high reward, right? Transition from active duty, but it worked out for me. It doesn't work out for a lot of people. But the defense companies tend to pigeonhole veterans in those business development positions. And then the veterans in the business development positions, think that other veterans that they hire ought to come into business development, and they end up like, not assimilating their veterans, often, as well, as a company that's not a defense company. It says, well, we got talent here. What? Where can we best use this talent? We're not selling to military. So that doesn't make sense. It put them in sales. So where can we best use them? And as long as they go in understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the veterans that their employees are employing, which is why I recommend that company managers read my book as well, then they're going to do fine.

 

Leighann Lovely  26:21

So tell me about your book. Okay.

 

William Toti  26:24

The book is titled, from CO to CEO, A Practical Guide for Transitioning from Military to Industry Leadership. Now, because it describes my journey from commanding officer CO, to Chief Executive Officer of Spartan Corporation, CEO. And it when you read the book, it's written, as me talking to veterans are thinking of transitioning out of the military. When I wrote it, though, I had in mind that this would be a book that non veteran, you know, corporate managers, HR people ought to read. And when you read it, what you're, what you're going to the experience you're going to get is one, veteran counseling and other it's like you're listening into that conversation, and you're listening to me tell those veterans, here's what you're going to be good at. Here's what you're going to screw up, if you're not careful. And so I think it gives insight into corporate leaders who haven't served as to what the strengths of those veteran employees are going to be, and what weaknesses need to be mitigated. You want to make the veteran, a successful employee,

 

Leighann Lovely  27:33

Right? You know, this reminds me and I'm not comparing these two by any means. So please, I don't want anybody to think, Oh, she's comparing. But this reminds me I interviewed a while back some individuals who work with people who are previously incarcerated coming into society. And there's, there's similarities in the sense that obviously, not similarities, in fact, that one person was in prison, and the other person was in the military at all. But there are similarities in the sense that when somebody is coming out of the military, back into society, or into civilian life, and somebody is coming out of prison into civilian life, there there's you can draw similarities in the sense that military and in prison, you have structure that no longer have in civilian life, there are certain things that all of the sudden, you as an individual have to remember about, just daily living, moving from it, especially if you're, you know, living on a military base full time. And, you know, you're got your wake up call, every morning, you got your three square meals at the same time, every single day, you've got everything you need, basically on that military base, and then all of a sudden, you're thrust into just having to have an alarm clock hafting to do you know, and then from obviously, from prison, again, everything is, you know, completely designed for you those similarities, all of a sudden, you can you can draw some and you would think that, as a society, we would get smarter about that. We have groups for AAA, we have groups for why aren't we? Why aren't we setting up places where individuals can go and meet and be like, Okay, here's what I'm struggling with. I'm, you know, I just recently came out of, you know, active duty, just want to come and have a conversation with all of my fellow veterans who are in this area and talk about what are you struggling with? What are you struggling and be able to talk through some of those things on a personal level because it's not just about a job. It's also can be, what are you struggling with family issues because these things, especially people who have been deployed, people who have been in war zones, people who have, I mean, it goes so much deeper and so much, you know, psychologically, the those things too, you would think that we would have, you know, a landing pad that goes far beyond just, Okay, here's your walking papers enjoy life.

 

William Toti  30:27

And well, it's funny, you mentioned that because I did have a veteran once say to me, there ought to be a halfway house for people transitioning out an author. He didn't say we're like prisoners, but you know, the, the concept is the same. It's the what you're trying to say, yes, our local groups, the veterans administration tries to do this, but they're overwhelmed. They're way overwhelmed their local groups, the VFW, and groups like that will have gatherings that try to help people and there are other organizations like the Military Officers Association of America, and organizations like that, that do try to have gatherings of people that are in the process of transitioning to help them talk through issues. Employers can help to though, because, you know, when I was growing up in the mid 2000s, in my first industry job, we had these things called employee resource groups, or ERGs. And we had them for Black Engineers, and America, you know, we had one for American Indian, you know, employees, and things like that. Did not have one for veterans. Interesting, right. Right. We were not seen as one of those d&i groups. But in fact, we should be veterans should be thought of as a diversity inclusion group, because there is a transition, they have similar transition challenges. It can be aided by, you know, a kind of a transition process. And so I do encourage companies to create your GES for veteran employees, just like they would for, you know, other groups

 

Leighann Lovely  32:15

Right. Now. I absolutely, that's, I mean, that should be one of the first it frustrates me that the very people who are defending our country are the people who are thought of last,

 

William Toti  32:31

yeah, yeah. We get used to that, though, don't we? Again, and that's why, again, that's part of the message with stop saying thank you for your service, and start to saying something that's meaningful, right? So doing something that's meaningful, you really want to thank them, help them in their transition process. And so that's the message I try to leave with companies.

 

Leighann Lovely  32:54

Right. So you work with window companies typically engage you? And you know, how do they engage you and you know,

 

William Toti  33:04

The engine of intergroup interaction in 2022 is LinkedIn. So they find me on LinkedIn, and they say, Hey, look, we're trying to revise our veteran transition and training curriculum for new employees. Would you, you know, would you be willing to help that kind of thing? And I to date, I've been doing all this kind of work, pro bono. As my, as the demand signal increases? I don't know how much longer I'll be able to do, because just simply because of matter of who do you help the most? I mean, first, there's an inclination that I'll help companies with higher numbers, because he can affect more people with, you know, the same footprint or same engagement time. But But again, I haven't reached that point yet.

 

Leighann Lovely  33:54

Wow, you've this has all been pro bono, that you've been assisting companies? And

 

William Toti  33:59

yes, yeah, no, it's one of the things I I don't say much. But I wrote this book, at my own cost is spent years, two years writing it, and paid a lot of money. And it was a hybrid publication, where the publisher paid part and I paid for. And everything I'm doing is never not doing this to make money. Obviously, I'm doing it to try to give back. But the effect will never break even on the thing. But But it's so important, right? I'm trying to put my time where my mouth is and do give us give back. And I'm happy to help companies improve their veteran transition training. You know, if they're serious about it, and I do want to make sure they're serious about it before I'm willing to keep to engage because there are companies that are serious, and I want to spend my time what's going to do the most good,

 

Leighann Lovely  34:57

Right? No, that's and that's absolutely I mean, that is absolutely positively amazing. Because like I said earlier, like you've said, there are so many veterans out there. And my, my partner at my day job, her husband is a military man. She, you know, I've seen her travel around. Because he gets relocated, and she's, you know, and he is, he's navy. So he's, you know, out there and

 

William Toti  35:32

Family, my family moved 15 times that active duty career. Yeah,

 

Leighann Lovely  35:37

so let's do so she right now she's in San Diego. And she's hoping to actually make her way back to back around to, you know, this area where I'm at. But, again, she, because she has that connection, and she understands as a recruiter, she's able to help translate some of the military or veteran people. What they've done in the military to the civilian, you know, the civilian world, unfortunately, you know, after you do that step, it's, you know, you send them to an employer, and, and then you have to step back and say, Okay, I hope this employer is going to be, you know, able to, you know, help them and, and I've seen, you know, I've sent some people to companies where they had, they were, let me see, they had the automatic nail guns, the individual walked into the facility, and people were using nail guns, and I think he practically ran out the door, because, again, this person was in a combat situation. And I don't know if you've ever heard Neil guns going off, it sounds just like a sure it sounds just like a gun. You know, so I have, I've personally seen the effects of just sending individuals to interviews, or seeing individuals in jobs or hearing the stories of individuals looking for jobs, because they, they're struggling to find ones that translate to what they've done, or, you know, being fired because they didn't smile too much, or they didn't smile enough, you know, in my heartbreaks, because, again, these individuals signed up. And no matter what they did, they still signed up and put their, you know, potentially could have put their life on the line to defend our country. And now we're being left out in the cold with that limited amount of support when they're ready to transition back into civilian life. And that, to me, is not acceptable.

 

William Toti  37:46

I agree. I worked with a lot of headhunters in my industry career. And I found myself spending a lot of time with the head owners to train them on how to how to train the candidates that they were working with. And if I spent some time doing that now, as well, I won't say that I doing that pro bono for it, because I think Heidrick and struggles can afford me. But anyway, the point I'm making is my challenge to the headhunters, you've sent me a candidate, I heard him and then boom, you're nowhere to be found when they turn out not to work out. And I expect you to be invested in this in this candidate, right. And in order to do that, you need to understand how to truly measure how you know what they're going to their probability of success in the role. And so I'm happy to help you evaluate military candidates and help you prepare the military candidates for civilian life, because the government is not going to do it. And again, that's the way I pound the table. When I talk to companies, I'm gonna say you, you think you're gonna get somebody that's ready to transition to your company. And they're not right, the government is failing in that mission. Right? So it's up to you.

 

Leighann Lovely  39:12

And now is the time that we are lacking people to go to work, we're lacking skilled people to go to work, right. And these individuals want to go to work. And I gotta tell you, the military has a pretty strict policy about no showing your job. These are going to be individuals who show up every day. Absolutely. There. I mean, so if you want an individual who's going to show up, put forth the effort every single day, and really is hungry to go to work and provide for their family. This is the kind of candidate that you want. Now, are they going to come with maybe a little bit of baggage or a little bit of extra training? Because they're transitioning? Yeah, you may have to put a little effort in up Front.

 

William Toti  40:01

Yeah, I would characterize it as things that might need to be unlearned. Absolutely. But you're you've got to exactly right. They're gonna have wonderful attributes that you won't find when you hire somebody off the street. Right. Okay, that comes with a counterpoint that they may not, not will, but may add things that need to be unlearned. And as long as you understand that and help them online it, it's going to work out great.

 

Leighann Lovely  40:26

Yep. Yeah, no, I, and it, like I said, it's a, it's a pain point and a frustration for me. And obviously, for you, otherwise, you wouldn't be on this mission, you wouldn't have written this book, you wouldn't be, you know, talking about this. And so yeah, this is a great topic that needs to be talked about more and employers need to, to invest in an understanding what this means. So yeah, so again, the book is from CO to CEO, a practical guide for transitioning from military to industry leadership. So check out that book, I am going to check that out, too. So yeah, so we are we are coming pretty close to time. But I want to get in the, the question of the season. If you could go back to your younger self and give yourself advice. When would you go back? And what advice would you give yourself?

 

William Toti  41:23

Geez, I think I would go back to my 17 year old self and say, accept the fact you're not going to be an astronaut. But your life is going to be terrific anyway. So just embrace it, and drive forward with as much vigor as you can.

 

Leighann Lovely  41:40

That's, that's awesome. Now I got to ask someone, you were 17 years old when you went in? Yes. Did you come from a military family?

 

William Toti  41:49

Oh, so not at all. Okay,

 

Leighann Lovely  41:52

So now I enlisted at 17 My parents had to send me away. So I got what what what made you decide that the military life was for you?

 

William Toti  42:02

Well, I mean, truth is in the 1970s. And the Vietnam War was still going on. My mother was dead set against this. Now the Vietnam War was winding down. And the draft had just ended. And she said, I've been worried all these years about you getting drafted and draft ends, and you enlist. So she went crazy. But the truth was, I couldn't afford any of the colleges I wanted to get into. Right? I wanted to high end college. And we lived in Youngstown, Ohio, outside of Youngstown, Ohio. I didn't want to go to Youngstown State that was all I could afford. And so the military provided, right. And so I was very happy about that. And, you know, in those days, that was the only way to become an astronaut to write you needed to be a military pilot. And so that was kind of part of the plan. So it all came together. And it worked out.

 

Leighann Lovely  42:54

So I What movie is that? I can't think I'm, I'm, I'm sitting here looking at you. And I'm picturing us at this young William with you know, dressing up, there's a movie and I can't think of what it is the the, the little boy who's you know, putting on the astronaut, you know, costume and staring at the stars. And you know, I'm sorry, I know i'm on a tangent.

 

William Toti  43:16

That's pretty much what the way I was right? During that tidy up description.

 

Leighann Lovely  43:20

Yeah, during that time, I think that was like the number one thing everybody wanted to be an astronaut.

 

William Toti  43:26

I was, you know, I think I was 11 or 12 when Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon, watch it live. And oil. Boy, that was a motivate. Thank God for that. Because it put a fire in my belly. I was a physics major with the academy, you know, to, to really do well in school, and to study hard. And, um, and it really set the stage for my life. So I think everybody needs something to motivate them. I'm sad for people who don't have that. Something that drives them. And for me, that's what it was.

 

Leighann Lovely  44:01

Okay, and here's one one more follow up quick show. So you go now you're in the deep, deep, I mean, how deep can you go and in a summaries

 

William Toti  44:13

It's classified but we say greater than 800 feet. Okay.

 

Leighann Lovely  44:17

So you had to have seen some crazy things. Right. So what is the craziest thing that you can you tell me what's the greatest, obviously doesn't have to be classified?

 

William Toti  44:30

Like craziest thing I can think of I cannot talk about. See, what's the craziest thing I can talk about? I'm not sure I know. As far as on a submarine, right, right. I was independent on a 911 Yeah, it wasn't crazy. It was very sad, right? Yeah. But you know, no, I can't think of anything. Crazy. The story I told you about the lady who went crazy after we shut the hatch. We weren't even submerged yet. That's probably the craziest thing. Because you can't tell. What's the hashCode shot you can't sell if you're underwater? Not, as far as you know, once you submerge it's not.

 

Leighann Lovely  45:10

I know, I have this idea in my head that like, oh, there's windows everywhere. No windows.

 

William Toti  45:15

No windows. Sorry. It's a worship. Glasses not good for worship.

 

Leighann Lovely  45:24

Somebody, hey, don't throw a rock, you might break the window. Yeah, that's terrible. And that's right. And that's to take this to a serious moment. You were you were at the Pentagon during September 11. My God, I don't even know how to. And this is the moment where I say, Thank you for your service. And, sir, I mean, deepest. Thank you for, you know, everything that you have been through and survived. And that's just I can't imagine the horrors of that day and and the people and every things that everybody experienced that is

 

William Toti  46:11

You do have a lot of survivor's guilt I lived in a lot of my friends didn't, but you get through it. And, you know, it was a tough day. And the days that followed, were equally tough. I was put in charge of the Navy's recovery effort on September 12. And so the days that followed were equally tough. But you know, I talk about it every year, around the anniversary, just so people remember, you know, I call the Pentagon, the forgotten 911. Everybody forgets that a plane hit us too. Because not as many people died. New York deserves the attention he gets. But to the families that lost loved ones in the Pentagon is no less. Project.

 

Leighann Lovely  46:54

Yeah, no. And that's, I'm, my heart goes out to do you and everybody that you lost and everybody that was involved in that. So okay, so wrapping up, if somebody wanted to reach out to you to, you know, talk with you about your book, or to reach out to you, you know, just how would they go about doing that?

 

William Toti  47:17

Well, they can, they can email me through my website and website is William toady, Tod, spelled t o ti.com. We am totally.com. And the book is available everywhere. It's an audio book, it's in, you know, Apple books, it's an it's on Amazon, Kindle everything. So it's easy to find. And you can email me via my website.

 

Leighann Lovely  47:39

Excellent. William, this has been such an amazing conversation. I think that you know, what you do and, you know, advocating for veterans is just an amazing thing. So I really appreciate that you took the time to come on and talk with me today.

 

William Toti  47:54

Well, thanks for having me. It's a very important subject. I'm so glad you're you're talking about it. So thank you.

 

Leighann Lovely  48:00

Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

Contact William

LinkedIN – linkedin.com/in/williamtoti

E-mail – william@williamtoti.com

Wedsite – http://williamtoti.com  

Don't forget to check out his book - From CO to CEO, A Practical Guide for Transitioning from Military to Industry Leadership 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPYI

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

veteran, military, people, transition, company, civilian, employees, submarine, understand, industry, book, navy, fail, employers, training, job, conversation, individuals, point, active duty

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